Wow, nice job governor. Now there is really no reason to vote no on prop 19, unless you like the fact that criminals profit from the black market.

Prohibition is a sickening horror and the ocean of censorship, hypocrisy incompetence, corruption and human wreckage it has left in its wake is almost endless.

Prohibition has decimated generations and criminalized millions for a behavior which is entwined in human existence, and for what other purpose than to uphold the defunct and corrupt thinking of a minority of misguided, self-righteous Neo-Puritans and degenerate demagogues who wish nothing but unadulterated destruction on the rest of us.

Based on the unalterable proviso that drug use is essentially an unstoppable and ongoing human behavior which has been with us since the dawn of time, any serious reading on the subject of past attempts at any form of drug prohibition would point most normal thinking people in the direction of sensible regulation.

By its very nature, prohibition cannot fail but create a vast increase in criminal activity, and rather than preventing society from descending into anarchy, it actually fosters an anarchic business model – the international Drug Trade. Any decisions concerning quality, quantity, distribution and availability are then left in the hands of unregulated, anonymous and ruthless drug dealers, who are interested only in the huge profits involved. Thus, the allure of this reliably and lucrative industry, with it’s enormous income potential that consistently outweighs the risks associated with the illegal operations that such a trade entails, will remain with us until we are collectively forced to admit the obvious.

There is therefore an irrefutable connection between drug prohibition and the crime, corruption, disease and death it causes. Anybody ‘halfway bright’, and who’s not psychologically challenged, should be capable of understanding that it is not simply the demand for drugs that creates the mayhem, it is our refusal to allow legal businesses to meet that demand. If you are not capable of understanding this connection then maybe you’re using something far stronger than the rest of us. So put away your pipe, lock yourself away in a small room with some tinned soup and water, and try to crawl back into reality A.S.A.P.

Because Drug cartels will always have an endless supply of ready cash for wages, bribery and equipment, no amount of tax money, police powers, weaponry, wishful thinking or pseudo-science will make our streets safe again. Only an end to prohibition can do that! How much longer are you willing to foolishly risk your own survival by continuing to ignore the obvious, historically confirmed solution?

If you support the Kool-Aid mass suicide cult of prohibition, and erroneously believe that you can win a war without logic and practical solutions, then prepare yourself for even more death, tortured corpses, corruption, terrorism, sickness, imprisonment, economic tribulation, unemployment and the complete loss of the rule of law.

Prohibition is a sickening horror and the ocean of censorship, hypocrisy incompetence, corruption and human wreckage it has left in its wake is almost endless.

Prohibition has decimated generations and criminalized millions for a behavior which is entwined in human existence, and for what other purpose than to uphold the defunct and corrupt thinking of a minority of misguided, self-righteous Neo-Puritans and degenerate demagogues who wish nothing but unadulterated destruction on the rest of us.

Based on the unalterable proviso that drug use is essentially an unstoppable and ongoing human behavior which has been with us since the dawn of time, any serious reading on the subject of past attempts at any form of drug prohibition would point most normal thinking people in the direction of sensible regulation.

By its very nature, prohibition cannot fail but create a vast increase in criminal activity, and rather than preventing society from descending into anarchy, it actually fosters an anarchic business model – the international Drug Trade. Any decisions concerning quality, quantity, distribution and availability are then left in the hands of unregulated, anonymous and ruthless drug dealers, who are interested only in the huge profits involved. Thus, the allure of this reliably and lucrative industry, with it’s enormous income potential that consistently outweighs the risks associated with the illegal operations that such a trade entails, will remain with us until we are collectively forced to admit the obvious.

There is therefore an irrefutable connection between drug prohibition and the crime, corruption, disease and death it causes. Anybody ‘halfway bright’, and who’s not psychologically challenged, should be capable of understanding that it is not simply the demand for drugs that creates the mayhem, it is our refusal to allow legal businesses to meet that demand. If you are not capable of understanding this connection then maybe you’re using something far stronger than the rest of us. So put away your pipe, lock yourself away in a small room with some tinned soup and water, and try to crawl back into reality A.S.A.P.

Because Drug cartels will always have an endless supply of ready cash for wages, bribery and equipment, no amount of tax money, police powers, weaponry, wishful thinking or pseudo-science will make our streets safe again. Only an end to prohibition can do that! How much longer are you willing to foolishly risk your own survival by continuing to ignore the obvious, historically confirmed solution?

If you support the Kool-Aid mass suicide cult of prohibition, and erroneously believe that you can win a war without logic and practical solutions, then prepare yourself for even more death, tortured corpses, corruption, terrorism, sickness, imprisonment, economic tribulation, unemployment and the complete loss of the rule of law.

Prohibition is a sickening horror and the ocean of censorship, hypocrisy incompetence, corruption and human wreckage it has left in its wake is almost endless.

Prohibition has decimated generations and criminalized millions for a behavior which is entwined in human existence, and for what other purpose than to uphold the defunct and corrupt thinking of a minority of misguided, self-righteous Neo-Puritans and degenerate demagogues who wish nothing but unadulterated destruction on the rest of us.

Based on the unalterable proviso that drug use is essentially an unstoppable and ongoing human behavior which has been with us since the dawn of time, any serious reading on the subject of past attempts at any form of drug prohibition would point most normal thinking people in the direction of sensible regulation.

By its very nature, prohibition cannot fail but create a vast increase in criminal activity, and rather than preventing society from descending into anarchy, it actually fosters an anarchic business model – the international Drug Trade. Any decisions concerning quality, quantity, distribution and availability are then left in the hands of unregulated, anonymous and ruthless drug dealers, who are interested only in the huge profits involved. Thus, the allure of this reliably and lucrative industry, with it’s enormous income potential that consistently outweighs the risks associated with the illegal operations that such a trade entails, will remain with us until we are collectively forced to admit the obvious.

There is therefore an irrefutable connection between drug prohibition and the crime, corruption, disease and death it causes. Anybody ‘halfway bright’, and who’s not psychologically challenged, should be capable of understanding that it is not simply the demand for drugs that creates the mayhem, it is our refusal to allow legal businesses to meet that demand. If you are not capable of understanding this connection then maybe you’re using something far stronger than the rest of us. So put away your pipe, lock yourself away in a small room with some tinned soup and water, and try to crawl back into reality A.S.A.P.

Because Drug cartels will always have an endless supply of ready cash for wages, bribery and equipment, no amount of tax money, police powers, weaponry, wishful thinking or pseudo-science will make our streets safe again. Only an end to prohibition can do that! How much longer are you willing to foolishly risk your own survival by continuing to ignore the obvious, historically confirmed solution?

If you support the Kool-Aid mass suicide cult of prohibition, and erroneously believe that you can win a war without logic and practical solutions, then prepare yourself for even more death, tortured corpses, corruption, terrorism, sickness, imprisonment, economic tribulation, unemployment and the complete loss of the rule of law.

This is a good move. So the argument that Prop 19 will save the state tons of money goes down the drain. SB 1449 solved that problem. Vote NO on Prop 19.

This is a good move. So the argument that Prop 19 will save the state tons of money goes down the drain. SB 1449 solved that problem. Vote NO on Prop 19.

What’s next, mail order. Hey mannnn!
I do recall your pumping iron thing you got high before lifting. Same old same old.
All in all, nice choice. Way to much money spent on pot enforcement. Most potheads just sit around, laugh and eat. Hardly harden criminals.

What’s next, mail order. Hey mannnn!
I do recall your pumping iron thing you got high before lifting. Same old same old.
All in all, nice choice. Way to much money spent on pot enforcement. Most potheads just sit around, laugh and eat. Hardly harden criminals.

What’s next, mail order. Hey mannnn!
I do recall your pumping iron thing you got high before lifting. Same old same old.
All in all, nice choice. Way to much money spent on pot enforcement. Most potheads just sit around, laugh and eat. Hardly harden criminals.

Now it will be a pure money generator, whereas before it was a huge cost.

Now it will be a pure money generator, whereas before it was a huge cost.

so mojopup when was your last fix?

Sorry voting yes

Sorry voting yes

Sorry voting yes

when does his term end?

BFD. Oxford Ohio set the fine for marajuana possession at $5 over twenty years ago.

Reduced hassle and overhead. More state money. Sounds like a win-win to me.

why do you care if/when mojopup was smoking pot? You are part of the problem. If you don’t like what he is doing DON’T do it yourself. Mind your own life, and stop trying to tell others how to live.

We live in a country that is supposed to be free. Free to make dumb choices. Free to drink your lunch time Martini River Hawk.

So stop trying to tell others how to live. And enjoy your drink.

why do you care if/when mojopup was smoking pot? You are part of the problem. If you don’t like what he is doing DON’T do it yourself. Mind your own life, and stop trying to tell others how to live.

We live in a country that is supposed to be free. Free to make dumb choices. Free to drink your lunch time Martini River Hawk.

So stop trying to tell others how to live. And enjoy your drink.

why do you care if/when mojopup was smoking pot? You are part of the problem. If you don’t like what he is doing DON’T do it yourself. Mind your own life, and stop trying to tell others how to live.

We live in a country that is supposed to be free. Free to make dumb choices. Free to drink your lunch time Martini River Hawk.

So stop trying to tell others how to live. And enjoy your drink.

Unfortunately, the neocons will never admit this is the best solution becasue it is not without flaws (while they ignore the more deeply flawed prohibition solution). They like to legislate morality as much as liberals like to spend other people’s money.

Both sides are stuck on stupid, they just have different objectives.

POT heads= problems.

POT heads= problems.

Good point! Full legalization could bring in billions for California, cut a major revenue source for organized crime, and slash the money spent on enforcement and prisons. But hey, black markets and government run orgs are big business. They won’t go down without a fight.

Except that unless im wrong people will now be able to grow small amounts for themselves without fear of jail time. If you got a house in a burbs grow some and sell it for pennies to your friends just to offset the cost of fertilizers etc. Or heck trade it for favors etc.

Yes Sir Mr Shizmitu Sir ! Your way or the highway Sir. Got it.

They ought to just legalize and tax it. Go after the real drugs like crack, and others.

Just legitimized corruption, $100 to look the other way. No different than paying off traffic cop or an inspector.Violate the law, payoff and we’ll forget about it

If he had decriminalized marijuana possession why are they collecting fines for having it? Stupid. So they still want to collect money from people who use it as a penalty, they just don’t want to spend any money on courts prosecuting it? How about just legalizing it and taxing it if revenue is the primary goal?

What a tool. Why should you care what he does in privacy? When was the last time you beat your wife, River Hawk?

I’m a Conservative and think this is awesome. What are you talking about, asshole?

It’s people like you Mike who are the problem.

Your government has no right to tell you what you may put in your own body. The idea that smoking a weed makes you a criminal is laughable. And you call yourself free? Vote for smaller government, more freedoms, and less micromanagement.

It is suppose to be a free country. If someone wants to do drugs it is their buisness.

whatever moonbat. I’m as conservative as they come and I support this 100%. Take your used up political cliches someplace else hippie.

re: shiz
river hawk is not part of the problem, you are with your “can do anything i want arrogancy” It is not about liking it and not doing ourselves. The point is the pot heads DO affect the non pot heads. Case in point: my cousin, same age as me, 47 is living out of his car, has been smoking pot since he was 12. Wanted to be in a band, worked a dead end factory job to do it. Laid due to merger and wound up unemployable, no skill and his brain is fried. he has NO place to go. He wasted his life, by wanting to be wasted. There are moral judgements to be made here, not mind your own business. What if in NJ, there was rampant pedophiles running around equal to the amount of pot smokers in CA – does that mean it should be legal? AND if you don’t like Pedophile’s as the example supplant it with Meth or Crack? Then answer.

typo corrections: “Laid off”
“doing pot ourselves”
you can figure out where I was typing too fast…..

typo corrections: “Laid off”
“doing pot ourselves”
you can figure out where I was typing too fast…..

If prop 19 passes then there are a host of legal issues that will need to be addressed.

Workplace drug testing………..
Child Custody considerations………….
Probation & Parolee’s………………
D.O.T Workers………………………..
Driving & traffic infractions………..l.
Insurance ,Liability & health………
Many questions will need to be answered.

All in all this is progress…..it may get Arnold re-elected…….and generate revenue and unclog the court system & prisons from Pot related charges.

This is good news! It’s getting too expensive for the criminal State to kidnap innocent people. They can only afford to commit robberies against them now.

Good decision Gov., my question about this is if it is decriminalized as it should then why a fine?

Actually there is a huge conservative movement in the US that supports decriminalization/legalization simply because of the bump it would give to over-burdened state economies and, frankly, because they don’t want their children getting criminal records for smoking pot and they want their kids to be able to buy it safely, in a well-lit store, rather than having to rely on some black market dealer who is likely to also be peddling harder substances and increases their privileged, beautiful, child’s chances of being shot.

Prohibition is dying right in front of us, kinda cool to watch.

Implying that those problems don’t exist for legal drugs like alcohol.

So Schwarzenegger’s argument is since the state can’t afford prosecution, they shouldn’t police it? Okay well I think the death penalty is too expensive, as is life in jail. We should decriminalize murder.

People should stop saying that Cannabis is a drug…Its starting to get annoying, ITS A PLANT!!!

What, the socialist/fascist State of California is actually taking a tiny step toward freedom!

Is economic devastation the only thing government thugs understand.

Nobody’s rights are being violated when someone merely possess an ounce of marijuana. Murder, not so much.

XBOX sales are going to soar

Steve, you’re a complete idiot. There are millions of conservatives who support decriminalization of marijuana.

MOJOPUP looses all credibility when saying stupid stuff like “demagogues who wish nothing but unadulterated destruction on the rest of us.” Isn’t it possible that people may actually believe that pot makes people lazy and more likely to wind up in the welfare system.
Demonizing good peoples motive makes you the demon. I’m a conservative and I applaude this move by the Governor because I believe in freedom. I also believe that working people should be allowed to somke pot but those on the public dole should be drug tested.

Perhaps too, you’re cousin was forced to spend way more time, effort and money to obtain cannabis than would otherwise be spent obtaining anothers vice? You can go to Walgreen’s and get some LorTab, or the grocery for some beer, and nobody will condemn you for it. Nice and easy. When cannabis becomes legal in California, you will see very productive members of society stop by the local coffee shop ands pick up an 1/8th (3.5 grams for those who might wonder) for a quick $20.00. After those 5 minutes, he/she can go home and enjoy a nice relaxing evening. Nothing harmful there unless you want to tell us how awful it is to sit in front of the TV, maybe even as a family and spend the night together.

Will the Mexican drug lords take this lying down, it could be the beginning of the end of the Mexican weed business, do I dare to say legalizing Pot is raciest in the same nonsensical way the Arizona immigration laws are.

Thank you Mr. Schwarzenegger!

I tried to call you to encourage you to sign this bill, but your phone number was always busy until it was disconnected. Thank you. I’m very glad to see that if you did now what you used to do you wouldn’t have to worry about going to jail.

Thank you for allowing a little rational sanity to shine through California law regarding marijuana. I commend you for doing the right thing.

Here’s an idea, before you call somebody any idiot read his post again. He said “neocons” not conservatives. I’m sure you know that there is a huge difference.

Ditto vink….as a conservative its good to see government actually decreasing itself for a change and its actually pretty smart…… saves on court appointed lawyers too. There’s alot of $$ right there AND they get the revenue of $100/ind that gets a ticket. Smokers will be forced to STAY HOME where it should be and not in public! I think whoever came up with this idea is a genius! BUT it begs to question ……. why not just pay a yearly “fine” (tax) and bring in more? Oh wait I know…… to placate the extreme right…… dayum I run into that EVERY time roflmao

Ditto vink….as a conservative its good to see government actually decreasing itself for a change and its actually pretty smart…… saves on court appointed lawyers too. There’s alot of $$ right there AND they get the revenue of $100/ind that gets a ticket. Smokers will be forced to STAY HOME where it should be and not in public! I think whoever came up with this idea is a genius! BUT it begs to question ……. why not just pay a yearly “fine” (tax) and bring in more? Oh wait I know…… to placate the extreme right…… dayum I run into that EVERY time roflmao

Prop 19 is not to “legalize”, it’s to hand over control to the government and it will make more serious consequences! ..make sure to read the prop before voting on it, please!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_19_%282010%29

Neo-Con = New Conservative

Get a clue

Neo-Con = New Conservative

Get a clue

obviously you smoke pot and missed the point. meaning you can’t see it any other way because you do. Your argument doesn’t hold up with Walgreen’s by the way, need something a bit more substantial than that. POINT: He can’t after 30 plus years focus on what to do. I took him to breakfast 2 weeks ago and he talks like Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High and has some lethargy to his movements similar to Ozzie Osborne. While it may be “fun” to do, it certainly has its limits. Now we have my cousin on disability. An ADDED value for the taxpayer? How many more after legalization.
I made my argument, now you make yours. Thank you very much.

Perhaps the Governor has realized that however unpopular an idea may be with the powerful minority, it simply does not give that power the authority to disregard the will of the (majority of) People. For way too long, the powers that be have ignored the will of the People and enforced their own “ideas” as law (San Diego leaps to mind). It is time the Government be made to work FOR the People and not against us. A vote FOR Prop 19 is a vote against tyrrany and the opression of our rights as American’s and as Human Beings. End Cannabis Prohibition and we can all work toward a free society.

Neocons hate to legislate morality. Unlike liberals, neocons believe people are free to do what they want without the government mandating what to do. Neocons believe the government should stay out of the peoples lives as much as possible, liberals believe the opposite.

Will there be points on my license?

Will there be points on my license?

Sad story robinnj but you can’t blame the pot for your cousin’s predicament. Your cousin is the one who chose his path not the pot. The pot is also not responsible for him getting laid off from his factory job.

Sad story robinnj but you can’t blame the pot for your cousin’s predicament. Your cousin is the one who chose his path not the pot. The pot is also not responsible for him getting laid off from his factory job.

re: egadd
maybe us moral type folks are just too darned concerned with your well being in destroying yourselves into a mindless oblivion!

re: egadd
maybe us moral type folks are just too darned concerned with your well being in destroying yourselves into a mindless oblivion!

re: egadd
maybe us moral type folks are just too darned concerned with your well being in destroying yourselves into a mindless oblivion!

Robin in NJ …
You not that dumb. It was not the pot that did that to your cousin, he is just a dumbass. Also, why on earth did your aunt/ uncle let a child do drugs? Maybe, just maybe … his problem started with your family letting children do drugs.(who knows what drugs he was really doing) Better parenting would help. We need to stop this Nannie state. The Government can’t protect you from everything. Including plants.

Sounds like someone doesn’t like to take responsibility for their family’s actions.
Robin, there are lots of things in the world that can and will harm you. Don’t stand on train tracks…jump in front of a truck..ect..ect.
With your logic…we should outlaw cigs…beer… cars..plants…stairs( people fall down every year)…football..ect..ect.
Pedophiles and or Meth Crack whatever has NOTHING to do with POT.
I don’t see the connection. Can you say the same about the Bar in your town? Ban it. Let the Nannie state protect you from life.

Robin in NJ …
You not that dumb. It was not the pot that did that to your cousin, he is just a dumbass. Also, why on earth did your aunt/ uncle let a child do drugs? Maybe, just maybe … his problem started with your family letting children do drugs.(who knows what drugs he was really doing) Better parenting would help. We need to stop this Nannie state. The Government can’t protect you from everything. Including plants.

Sounds like someone doesn’t like to take responsibility for their family’s actions.
Robin, there are lots of things in the world that can and will harm you. Don’t stand on train tracks…jump in front of a truck..ect..ect.
With your logic…we should outlaw cigs…beer… cars..plants…stairs( people fall down every year)…football..ect..ect.
Pedophiles and or Meth Crack whatever has NOTHING to do with POT.
I don’t see the connection. Can you say the same about the Bar in your town? Ban it. Let the Nannie state protect you from life.

Robin in NJ …
You not that dumb. It was not the pot that did that to your cousin, he is just a dumbass. Also, why on earth did your aunt/ uncle let a child do drugs? Maybe, just maybe … his problem started with your family letting children do drugs.(who knows what drugs he was really doing) Better parenting would help. We need to stop this Nannie state. The Government can’t protect you from everything. Including plants.

Sounds like someone doesn’t like to take responsibility for their family’s actions.
Robin, there are lots of things in the world that can and will harm you. Don’t stand on train tracks…jump in front of a truck..ect..ect.
With your logic…we should outlaw cigs…beer… cars..plants…stairs( people fall down every year)…football..ect..ect.
Pedophiles and or Meth Crack whatever has NOTHING to do with POT.
I don’t see the connection. Can you say the same about the Bar in your town? Ban it. Let the Nannie state protect you from life.

Probably so it will stand up to Supreme Court scrutiny on the State and FEDERAL level……. remember it’s still illegal FEDERALLY. This way it’s still illegal just on a lower level…… It’s brilliant! And to those who keep saying “Everyone will just grow their own!” Are you kidding me? Have you ever actually read how to do it? We Americans are past growing our own stuff. Do you grow lettuce because your wife wants a salad every night for her diet? People will just run to the store and grab some “prepared” product. Which also means people wont have to acquire so much to last them. less than an ounce

Probably so it will stand up to Supreme Court scrutiny on the State and FEDERAL level……. remember it’s still illegal FEDERALLY. This way it’s still illegal just on a lower level…… It’s brilliant! And to those who keep saying “Everyone will just grow their own!” Are you kidding me? Have you ever actually read how to do it? We Americans are past growing our own stuff. Do you grow lettuce because your wife wants a salad every night for her diet? People will just run to the store and grab some “prepared” product. Which also means people wont have to acquire so much to last them. less than an ounce

Probably so it will stand up to Supreme Court scrutiny on the State and FEDERAL level……. remember it’s still illegal FEDERALLY. This way it’s still illegal just on a lower level…… It’s brilliant! And to those who keep saying “Everyone will just grow their own!” Are you kidding me? Have you ever actually read how to do it? We Americans are past growing our own stuff. Do you grow lettuce because your wife wants a salad every night for her diet? People will just run to the store and grab some “prepared” product. Which also means people wont have to acquire so much to last them. less than an ounce

Your cousin is in charge of his own life – pot had nothing to do with the decisions he made, or the results.

Those issues are already addressed. It is legal to buy booze and get drunk but you can’t show up to work drunk. It is legal to get prescriptions for pain killers but if you drive for a living you can’t use opiate based painkillers or you will test positive.

“It may get Arnold re-elected”? He is termed out. Meg Whitman and Jerry Brown are running for his office as we speak.

Sounds like you cousin has other medical problems. Maybe you should have him move in with you so you can direct his life.

People should really understand from where the demonization of marijuana originates. I can’t reconcile why it is OK to take a true “drug” (one manufactured from a pharmaceutical company) and not a natural drug from a plant.

http://www.articlesbase.com/spirituality-articles/unfortunate-history-of-marijuana-prohibition-in-the-united-states-908660.html

http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/

again you missed the point: his world revolved around pot. just like your world revolves around defending it and maybe you’re doing it as well. He clearly wasn’t thinking long term because the pot addled his brain over time. Quote from shiz:”After those 5 minutes, he/she can go home and enjoy a nice relaxing evening.” As if they NEEDED that to go home and enjoy a nice relaxing evening?
Being in constant reliance to “relax” or “feel” good with pot created the disheveled state of my cousin. Hey he made the choice a long time ago. Just like Meth users, they know the risks involved. I would feel better if ALL pot users sign a WAIVER that if they somehow can’t function/hold their jobs and fail to gain employment because “some” employers do drug test, and it’s proven that the brain ability has been diminished by pot, that they forfeit the right to apply for welfare/disability of any kind. If it’s NOT damaging as YOU people say, sign that and put your pot where you mouth is!! Simply put, we the taxpayer don’t want to pick up the TAB!

again you missed the point: his world revolved around pot. just like your world revolves around defending it and maybe you’re doing it as well. He clearly wasn’t thinking long term because the pot addled his brain over time. Quote from shiz:”After those 5 minutes, he/she can go home and enjoy a nice relaxing evening.” As if they NEEDED that to go home and enjoy a nice relaxing evening?
Being in constant reliance to “relax” or “feel” good with pot created the disheveled state of my cousin. Hey he made the choice a long time ago. Just like Meth users, they know the risks involved. I would feel better if ALL pot users sign a WAIVER that if they somehow can’t function/hold their jobs and fail to gain employment because “some” employers do drug test, and it’s proven that the brain ability has been diminished by pot, that they forfeit the right to apply for welfare/disability of any kind. If it’s NOT damaging as YOU people say, sign that and put your pot where you mouth is!! Simply put, we the taxpayer don’t want to pick up the TAB!

I do use Cannabis (everyone should be so lucky to have that choice), I have a valid medical card and recommendation yes. Because of the chronic symptoms I have I could visit any number of local Doctors here and for a co-pay, get a 120 pill, 10mg LorTab prescription. Each month btw, along with that many Doctors are happy to give you some great muscle relaxants. Soma are “awesome” , super addictive and coupled with the Hydrocodone, you get to fiend and be constipated.
If you’re cousin is merely “down on life” they could give him some anti-dep. drugs, if he’s lucky they will be the ones that might cause serious harm if you stop taking them.
My argument is this. If you are in fact a loser, no amount of not smoking cannabis can help that. Of course it may even push someone over the edge to chronic inactivity, but I think we can all agree that at least that is a surmountable hill as opposed to the crushing physical and mental damage being done by todays pharmaceutical answers. There are many strains available that, if a patient has a legal choice among whats available, will not cause someone to merely smoke and fall asleep. Too bad the research has been stopped by the U.S. Government for so many years.

I do use Cannabis (everyone should be so lucky to have that choice), I have a valid medical card and recommendation yes. Because of the chronic symptoms I have I could visit any number of local Doctors here and for a co-pay, get a 120 pill, 10mg LorTab prescription. Each month btw, along with that many Doctors are happy to give you some great muscle relaxants. Soma are “awesome” , super addictive and coupled with the Hydrocodone, you get to fiend and be constipated.
If you’re cousin is merely “down on life” they could give him some anti-dep. drugs, if he’s lucky they will be the ones that might cause serious harm if you stop taking them.
My argument is this. If you are in fact a loser, no amount of not smoking cannabis can help that. Of course it may even push someone over the edge to chronic inactivity, but I think we can all agree that at least that is a surmountable hill as opposed to the crushing physical and mental damage being done by todays pharmaceutical answers. There are many strains available that, if a patient has a legal choice among whats available, will not cause someone to merely smoke and fall asleep. Too bad the research has been stopped by the U.S. Government for so many years.

You guys really aren’t conservative then, rather you are libertarian http://bryangruhlke.com/

well now you sound contradictory. NOW it’s called “drugs” and it’s bad parenting and it’s bad. Do you hear how you sound now? As far as parenting goes, I know my aunt and this was done behind her back – sneaking! Just like you’re first beer, you and your buds went out somewhere in the woods with your case of beer and thought that was funny huh? There was a connection, you just don’t want to see it, I told you use Meth and or Heroin as the example, just because you do it in CA all over the damned state doesn’t quantify it as just.

well now you sound contradictory. NOW it’s called “drugs” and it’s bad parenting and it’s bad. Do you hear how you sound now? As far as parenting goes, I know my aunt and this was done behind her back – sneaking! Just like you’re first beer, you and your buds went out somewhere in the woods with your case of beer and thought that was funny huh? There was a connection, you just don’t want to see it, I told you use Meth and or Heroin as the example, just because you do it in CA all over the damned state doesn’t quantify it as just.

You sound pretty stupid. Of course we legislate morality. All laws are based on Morality.

I like this idea a lot. Get the Dem voters too stoned to care about voting. Doubt me? I’d love to see a poll of Dem vs Rep registered who have partaken in the past 5 years.

Thank God we have people who are morally right to help us see where we come up so short. It is so rare in life to encounter such purity.

I contend that if indeed this gentleman and others have issues with their life, as you have described then they will in fact BENEFIT from the use of cannabis if it is substituted for WHATEVER is causing their physical or mental discomfort. I say then that if this person did not use cannabis he would very likely be worse off today than otherwise.

I make one post and my world revolves around defending it? You can’t compare meth users to pot users because it is an apples and oranges comparison. Meth is far far worse than marijuana with far more sever physical addiction (which pot doesn’t have) and side effects. You say your cousin wasn’t thinking long term because the pot addled his brain over time. Isn’t it entirely possible that he just didn’t think long term and the pot he smoked didn’t play a part in that?

I don’t use pot. I just get tired of people blaming the drugs they or their friends and families use for all the problems they have in life.

WOW…never said it was not a drug. And if your family can’t raise a 12 yr old boy, don’t know if he is smoking pot…..what els might he have done? You have no idea. BETTER PARENTING for your cousin when he was 12 would have helped him. And yes..pot IS BAD for a 12 yr old.
DAHHH……Everyone knows that…Exept your aunt/ uncle.

No contradictions here sweethart…your just getting mad because so few people see things your way.

Conservatives believe in PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and GOD’S FREEDOMS.
You have a right to mess up your life as long as you it doesn’t injure anyone else.
There is no crime unless there as an injured party. If you want to load up your trunk with hemp it i syour business you should be able to walk aroudn with your trunk or pockets filled with the stuff as long as you don’t injure anyone else.
That is what Conservatives believe GET OUT OF MY BUSINESS. GOV’T Has no authority or jurisdiction over a Free People. Conservatives believe in raising Moral, Honorable, Conscientious, Free people that will not be a burden on anyone else. This needs no regulation.
Democracy = Slavery and it is Unlawful & Unconstitutional.

Join us and be Free http://www.RepublicoftheunitedStates.org

He just wants the $100 fine from the next 500,000 American citizens California arrests, without having to pay for seeing them in court.

Just pass prop 19 and move beyond this stupidity.

Yay, I can’t wait for the forklift drivers in my warehouse to drive around stoned. And if your new car arrives with the brakes incorrectly installed, don’t blame us, we were high when we put them in!

Meanwhile he did this all while pot was illegal. Maybe if we used the money we waste on enforcement of prohibition and used it instead to educate and rehabilitate your cousin would not be in this situation. My dad died when I was 10 from cirrhosis of the liver, but I hear no calls from people to criminalize alcohol. Oh yeah that’s right we did and it created organized crime kind of similar to the drug cartels.

We went from the Neo-Con = New Conservative to the

Neo-Commies = New Commies Communists/LIEberals/Progressives/Marxists, etc.

It really isn’t about Bushlicans or Obamacrats they are two sides to teh same coin of DEMOCRACY = SLAVERY.

Democracy is Unlawful and Unconstitutional…we are a REPUBLIC.

Join the Legal, Lawful Constitutional newly RESTORED REPUBLIC.
Return back to God’s Law (Common Law) as in the Constitution and learn hwo to be Free Again. Get away from the US CORPORATION, the largest Corp in the World, the Democracy Gov’t that ensalves all of us.

Join us a new way forward:
http://www.RepublicoftheunitedStates.org Lawful, Constitutional, Peaceful and FREE.

I have smoked pot all my life, i’m 42. i played guitar and did the band thing. i smoked pot everyday. i was a pot head. But at 25 i decided I wanted to do something with myself, i was still smoking pot every day too. I got some computer skills, worked crappy jobs, worked my ass off until i got to a good company and now i am making very good money, my wife stays home and I have two wonderfull kids. I still smoke pot. it wasn’t pot that controlled me, it was me. So your cousin has no one to blame but himself.

I think I may move to California !

Couldn’t you just replace high/ stoned, with drunk now?
Why would this be a new problem?
I don’t get it. Ever had a pain killer? Do you eat them at work?

I was wondering what that smell was wafting into Colorado from a westerly direction. Now I know the real reason I was feeling so high in the Colorado mountains:

http://robustwanderlust.blogspot.com/2010/10/molas-pass-at-10910-feet.html

Republican for 20 years, and partake everyday all day and so do the rest of my conservative friends. If you consider conservatives with an MBA I doubt that stereotype holds up. Libs dress like hippies that is why they all look stoned but when you wear a suit and tie everyday no one notices.

The public dole, does that mean people that collect SS shouldn’t drink alcohol? Alcohol is a drug. And SS is the publics money.
Or do you mean unemployment, that in most states people pay into their entire working lives.
Please let us know Mr Conservitive mind.

If you want people to hear the quality of your words, you would do best not to point a finger and yell “Witch” first.

Now, with that being said:

I, personally, am of the opinion that we need to outlaw *all* drugs…. be they caffine, alcohol, cigars, cigarettes, pain killers, cancer cures, ADD meds, flu meds, vitamins, genetically altered produce and animals.

Also, since I’m on my high horse… we should give up cars (due to polution) as well as electricity. Hell, we should probably go ahead and rubber-coat all the stairs, door knobs, and bathtubs.

Oh, hey… better outlaw sodium, too… for the children. … oh.. High Fructose Corn Syrup… really.. please…. think of the kids.
/sarcasm

Perhaps if you had a better ATTITUDE, the world would be a better place. Maybe if you spent this much time trying to help your cousin fix his life, and to get him help, instead of trying to find a REASON for his problem….

Well, maybe I wouldn’t think you were an idiot. /taunt

With all of the things wrong in the world, you want to sit here…. point fingers at people you’ve never met for a problem you clearly just chant “it’s the weed! it’s the weed! *hissssss*” over and over at….

Where does personal responsibility stop?

I’m a gaming addict. In the last 4 years, I’ve logged *well* over 1.5 years of gaming time. I manage to keep a job… And I’m dopped up to the gills with antidepressants, acid reducers, pain killers, muscle relaxers, and an inhaler (for my chronic asthma/recurring bronchitis).
Every day for 4 years, I’ve had 2-3 hydrocodone. Now, I’m developing ulcers. My stomach bleeds. I throw up 1-2 times a day (usually in the mornings, pure bile).

If this plant were able to make me feel better… and not kill me, as the doctors are…

Would you deny me the right to exist without pain, simply because your cousin couldn’t handle his actions? Would you deny 100′s? 1000′s? Where do you draw the line between the “good” for you and the “good” for the population?

I’m not a smoker (asthma), but I’ve had friends who were very sharp, very creative individuals who’ve smoked for 10+, 15+ years. Some of them, I couldn’t hold a candle to (intellectually).

These people seemed to not only “keep” a job, but thrive.

Why is it? What is the difference between these people and your cousin?

Is it your family and their family? Maybe your cousin got a bad batch, laced with something that messed him up. Does your cousin drink at all? Alcoholism can cause brain damage.

Where is the proof that this is what’s got him messed up? Surely, you have that to go along with your soapbox?!

Otherwise, really this hate your spewing is pointless…. as is the hate spewed towards you… If we could get along, perhaps we’d not be stuck so far in the past with our collective heads up our asses. ^_^

The criminality of black markets boils down to this…The marketeers benefit, the consumers benefit, so who is the injured parties? The government, of course. The black market is the free market at its finest.

If were talking about eliminating prohibition, we should allow people to put whatever they want in their bodies. Alcohol does more damage every year than all other drugs combined…yet it remains the only legal substance we “free Americans” can put in our bodies. The CEO’s of the alcohol companies make 7+ figure incomes and get awards for running a successful business. But if I sell a dime bag to someone, that is jail time (and I made very little profit) and a permanent record as well as a negative social label. If one is legal, then all should be legal….at least in a truly free country!

robinnj…I can see your point to a degree, but the liberal mindset says that if someone makes bad decisions and now is in a bad position, then we are obligated to help that person out. I believe in responsibility for ones own actions. If you jump off a bridge (bad decision) then you splat (bad position).

One big problem with the “meth or crack” analogy is that it is a substance that costs more and comes with a bigger negative label in our culture. Change both of those and put it on the same level as alcohol and you will find much fewer users that are losers! With out the criminal consequence more people could keep their jobs intact (at least as much as the alcoholic) and if the prices were similar to alcohol, wouldn’t go broke using their substance of choice. Bottom line…If one is legal in a free country, then all should be legal…or if one is illegal, then all should be illegal!

robinnj…I can see your point to a degree, but the liberal mindset says that if someone makes bad decisions and now is in a bad position, then we are obligated to help that person out. I believe in responsibility for ones own actions. If you jump off a bridge (bad decision) then you splat (bad position).

One big problem with the “meth or crack” analogy is that it is a substance that costs more and comes with a bigger negative label in our culture. Change both of those and put it on the same level as alcohol and you will find much fewer users that are losers! With out the criminal consequence more people could keep their jobs intact (at least as much as the alcoholic) and if the prices were similar to alcohol, wouldn’t go broke using their substance of choice. Bottom line…If one is legal in a free country, then all should be legal…or if one is illegal, then all should be illegal!

…but what about the tab we have to pick up for the smokers (cigarettes) and the drinkers? Both of those are legal and cause way more “burdens” to our society…both financially and socially. Again, if one is legal, then all should be legal.

…but what about the tab we have to pick up for the smokers (cigarettes) and the drinkers? Both of those are legal and cause way more “burdens” to our society…both financially and socially. Again, if one is legal, then all should be legal.

Excellent, a very good move. This will help keep many people out of jail who should not be there in the first place. Next step, get it legal.

We are where we are today because many people see things his way.

I agree with him on the waiver part. The rest of the country shouldn’t be required to foot the bill for your recovery and side effects from addiction. I’d gladly donate to non-profit initiatives to take the place of that, though.

As an old-school conservative, my belief is that this should only be legislated to the point of not endangering others. Laws against driving while on it, against smoking in the company of those who don’t consent, and in and around public buildings. Beyond that, put two taxes on it. One for sales tax, and one that goes into a fund to cover the costs incurred in by government in it’s use.

There will be a surge of people trying it when it gets legalized, after which groups like MADD and DARE will take over with public education and put the social stigma against it that’s needed. The sooner we give up playing Sisyphus, the sooner this stops being a problem.

…hate to keep playing the devils advocate, but I used to smoke pot (and did other hard drugs, even went to a rehab) but I am almost 40, have a great job, good health, etc. The blame is never on the substance or the circumstance…each individual is accountable for his/her own actions. Some are luckier than others and get away with things for longer…it just sucks that “freedom” in America has fostered so many irresponsible, lazy jerks that think of nothing but rights with no responsibility…and the liberal movement says we should feel sorry for them and bail them out when they make bad choices….

…back to the point…people make bad choices all the time with “legal” substances that screw their entire life up…so should we make those illegal too? That seems to be what your viewpoint states…hey that guy smoked weed, its illegal and he ended up screwed up…put him in jail….but on the other hand that guy drank alcohol, its legal and he ended up screwed up…lets feel sorry for him and pay a bunch of money to help him out because alcohol is so much better than any other drug…oops, I guess that reality is the other way around.

So, exactly how is it that someone can be fined without conviction?

Doesn’t this scare the devil out of someone else? All this banter about prohibition, legalization, etc….

BUT SINCE WHEN HAS A GOVERNMENT BEEN ABLE TO FINE PEOPLE WITHOUT A JURY CONVICTION???

Yes, but a more full statement is that cannabinoids mimic what is already produced by our bodies. Cannabinoids = protective, anti-glutamate toxicity, etc. Want to REALLY get healing going?!? Then drink essential fatty acids (fish/flax/hemp especially) each day, avoid dietary glutamate like the plague, and add cannabis when your body needs some additional cannabinoids. Doing the dietary things are a NATURAL way to boost endo-cannabinoids (the best kind because they are your body’s version) and judiciously add some cannabis when you get overwhelmed with extra stress.

agreed, you make sense on with that post. I don’t know about a waiver, sounds like a waste of time. Do you sign one before a bottle of Chardonnay?

Wrong, David. I’m as Conservative as they come. Pro-life, smaller government, fiscal responsibility and loathe dead beat welfare queen liberals. I’m not a Libertarian. I look forward to the day it’s decriminalized. I don’t smoke it, have no desire to smoke it. It’s a great opportunity for tax revenues and our country has far too many “real” problems to be focused on the cheech and chongers.

if that is true then:

work-a-holics= problems (to family)
alcoholics = problems (in family, finance, social arenas, etc.)
eat-a-holics = problems (obesity, health care strain, etc.)
shop-a-holics= problems (over spending, absent more from the home, etc.)

…see how stupid that statement sounds! Its about taking personal responsibility. Just because someone smokes pot does not make them a criminal anymore than drinking alcohol, eating food, going to work, etc…its in the balance of things. I know many functional, successful individuals that smoke weed. I also know tons of loser alcoholics that are a burden to everyone they are around….why then is alcohol legal and pot not?

I’m a conservative and think this is great. I don’t think that anyone with an IQ higher than room temp would want to drug themselves but, as long as they don’t adversely effect me…

I think this is a big mistake. I believe marihuana should be completely legal or completely illegal. California has just created a system where millions of customers can purchase up to an ounce. Meanwhile, marihuana remains illegal at the whosale level. They just created a huge marked that only crimnals can exploit. The violence, the corruption, and the smuggling associated with marihuana will grow as criminals fight for the opportunity to sell to this huge new market. I could live with either answer, either make it completely legal or completely illegal. This and the medical marihuana scam just create markets for criminals. I would support making it legal. Let honest U.S. businessmen make money off it and sell it in the liquor store with similar controls.

That’s an incorrect “test”. The actual map is linear. Left to right; Totalitarianism —-> Anarchy

sorry Kydo…I have to agree with shizmit11! He is correct!

You know you all crack me up! Alcohol has ruined so many lives including mine with the people in my family running from child abuse, wife abuse to dying from it ruining your liver, and yet we still have it. It is a free choice to drink or not to drink, to smoke or not to smoke. Everyone knows the dangers, everyone has a choice. I live with a very bad disease that I have to take pain killers for and it still doesn’t do the job. I am very careful not to take them unless I absolutely have to- which is rare due to me having a high pain tolerance. But here is a herb that is not near the potency and the after affects that other pain killers and other drugs the FDA approved for us to take. We can run to the doctors for painkillers, and pills we find out 5 years later that “Oh by the way they now cause strokes, and heart attacks and what else, they come with 25 different side effects and most areDO NOT USE heavy machinery and driving”. I am independent, neither republican or democrat, the whole system is messed up and corrupt- the goverment is corrupt it doesn’t take a brain scientist to know that. But I can tell you one thing. If a person wants to smoke pot, he or she will get it no matter what the law states. How many of you drank alcohol against the law before you turned 21 Raise your hand? Just like alcohol. I see no difference here. The fact is THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY, people are people they will do what they want. They are responsible for their own lives and decisions that affect those lives and others. By producing this herb (pot) could protect many people, could bring many jobs, and could help many people like me who cannot find other ways to get rid of horrid pain and don’t have near the side effects. So when you boil it down- People have made far too much of this being legalized. I would rather see it legalized and help those that are in chronic pain than not. As with everything if someone wants something bad enough they will get it no matter what the law says. How much money do we pay each year for DUI checks and court costs and saftey.So what we are gonna penalize all of us who can handle alcohol responsibly and make alcohol non existant? It choices people pure and simple. Pot is the simpliest form of a herb used. Not cocaine, not heroin not others that are made up by man. Do you really know Kydo, who you are working with and what they are using? So to say don’t blame us if your tires are installed wrong. Hey my tires are installed wrong by a big chain name I will not name and I don’t think those people were using drugs!
Arnold is sitting in a good spot THE MIDDLE OF THE FENCE! We won’t charge you and take you to court, we will just smack your hands and fine you so the state can still collect money on you.

I don’t drink or use drugs, and haven’t for 20 years. I used to drink and smoke pot. I’m fairly disciplined and they didn’t wreck my life, but they didn’t enhance it either. Especially for undisciplined people, pot is very bad. My nephew is an example of this. However, we can’t make all bad things illegal and we shouldn’t even try. Respect for a person’s individuality demands this. We can help people without trying to control them. You can always find a reason where almost any behavior affects others, but in order to get along in this diverse world we need to limit our forceful interference.

If you really believed that smoking pot was a crime you would call the police on your cousin. The fact that you do not makes you a hypocrite. It’s OK to arrest a million people across the country every year . . . just not your cousin. I bet if he beat his girlfriend you would call the police. That is a crime . . .

How can a man be said to be free if he doesn’t even have sovereignty over his own body?

No true conservative, indeed, no true American would ever even question why marijuana should be legalized.

“Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.” – Ronald Reagan

We know from their written records that presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both grew marijuana on their farms in Virginia – and neither one so much as applied to the state for a permit.

“Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.” – Thomas Jefferson

Presidents Bill Clinton, George Bush and Clueless Comrade Barry have all admitted to smoking marijuana to get high. That’s at least five presidents of the United States that would be felons under the marijuana prohibition laws of several states– even though their actions brought no harm to anyone. This is ridiculous.

It makes no difference what the “unintended consequences” are or may be concerning a man’s right to do that which does no harm to another. For the spirit of man to ascend, men must be free to make their own choices, even their own mistakes, especially, in fact, their own mistakes.

“It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.” – George Washington

In the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, no one cares what you smoke or how many harmless plants you grow as long as you’re not out trying to rape, rob or murder somebody or figure out a way to scam a handout from your productive countrymen.

We need to send these Nanny State Fascists back to Europe where they belong and return this country to the Rugged Individualists who know what freedom and free enterprise are all about.

“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.” – Abraham Lincoln

Sic simper tyrannis.

How can a man be said to be free if he doesn’t even have sovereignty over his own body?

No true conservative, indeed, no true American would ever even question why marijuana should be legalized.

“Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.” – Ronald Reagan

We know from their written records that presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both grew marijuana on their farms in Virginia – and neither one so much as applied to the state for a permit.

“Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.” – Thomas Jefferson

Presidents Bill Clinton, George Bush and Clueless Comrade Barry have all admitted to smoking marijuana to get high. That’s at least five presidents of the United States that would be felons under the marijuana prohibition laws of several states– even though their actions brought no harm to anyone. This is ridiculous.

It makes no difference what the “unintended consequences” are or may be concerning a man’s right to do that which does no harm to another. For the spirit of man to ascend, men must be free to make their own choices, even their own mistakes, especially, in fact, their own mistakes.

“It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.” – George Washington

In the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, no one cares what you smoke or how many harmless plants you grow as long as you’re not out trying to rape, rob or murder somebody or figure out a way to scam a handout from your productive countrymen.

We need to send these Nanny State Fascists back to Europe where they belong and return this country to the Rugged Individualists who know what freedom and free enterprise are all about.

“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.” – Abraham Lincoln

Sic simper tyrannis.

This removes the “mandatory” court appearance. Like traffic offenses, you can mail in the money and avoid the hassle of the trip to court for the relatively certain conviction. Nobody is being forced to pay without being convicted. Offenders can still refuse to pay the fine and choose go to court and get convicted first.

This removes the “mandatory” court appearance. Like traffic offenses, you can mail in the money and avoid the hassle of the trip to court for the relatively certain conviction. Nobody is being forced to pay without being convicted. Offenders can still refuse to pay the fine and choose go to court and get convicted first.

judging by your name, I strongly believe you are, in fact, conservative.

judging by your name, I strongly believe you are, in fact, conservative.

The preservatives in our food are killing us all, and no one talks about that. I say stick with the purest and naturalist form of things Cannabis is an herb and used properly can bring great relief to many ailments. Anybody know anyone that is on Prozac Zoloft , or other anti-depressants- anti anxiety drugs, that cause suicide and many other nasty after affects, well ya don’t have that with pot. It just helps you to relax and chill out, so I would rather have someone using pot then the man made crap that the goverment sells so quickly and at super high costs through the FDA. Maybe you would have less crime and less killings if more people smoked pot then left frustrations built up and went out to shoot someone because they couldn’t handle them anymore. Being sick, having cancer, and eating unhealthy crap filled with preservatives and handing out drugs for high cholestetral, high blood pressure, anxiety, depression all bring big bucks to our goverment so what the need to cure anything- they obviously all come with 25 very bad side effects including death. But hey who cares…… Pot is the Killer!

Actually, the consumers dont benefit. Black markets cause the price to go way up due to its illegality and demand. So, it only gives power to those profiting form the market, drug dealers and cartels.

the only problem with your little summary of what conservatives are all about is that they kill and injure countless people all the time in the name of making themselves richer. So “moral, honorable, and conscientious” aren’t exactly the right words to be using. I don’t call enslaving a foreign country’s people with debt, poverty, and oppression in the name of bigger profits “honorable” or “moral”

If Alcohol is considered a drug and the consequences for driving under the influence of alcohol is loss of licenese, heavy fines, and possible jail time then why is MJ ok.. sounds like different standards to me….

Word shismit, i dont understand why people are freaking out about people being “stoned” at work or have this notion that suddenly everyone is going to be smoking all day everyday. Look at Amsterdam where it is tolerated and kids grow up with it as a normal part of their life, they have a lower percentage of smokers than we do here where it is prohibited and strictly enforced. What does that tell you? Education and acceptance create responsible use, prohibition and lies create binging and irresponsible actions.

decriminalize my crack!

Beer-n-ammo
A little education will go a long way. Try to educate people on conservatism rather then name calling. I’m sure it would go a long way.

I don’t think Libertarian’s are as pro-legalization as they claim to be. Last prez. election Ron Paul took out a massive 2 page add in my local paper, with nothing but copy. Not one word about drug policy, why the ommission? Ron Paul i sjust like any othe rpolitician that says what the voters want to hear, shame on you….Prove me wrong please!

You want to see a real change on this issue in Arizona then help elect a pro-freedom County Attorney in Maricopa County (which has about 2/3 of Arizona’s population).

I make a simple pledge — As Maricopa County Attorney, I will devote the resources of the office to the prosecution of those individuals who have committed crimes involving force or fraud against another, identifiable, victim — with a focus on victim restitution. Until such time as these efforts no longer consume all resources of the office, no efforts will be expended on prosecution of victimless crimes (such as simple possession).

After all, Arizona’s Constitution makes clear that the purpose of government is the protection of individual rights — government should not become the primary agent of violating the rights of individuals, including the right just to be left alone.

California now recognizes this as a problem (which it is, both for budget and resource reasons, but also because of freedom and humanitarian reasons). Missouri Supreme Court Chief Justice seems on the same page with me about certain prosecutions:

“Perhaps the biggest waste of resources in all of state government is the … over-incarceration of nonviolent offenders and our mishandling of drug and alcohol offenders. It is costing us billions of dollars and it is not making a dent in crime.”

That is the Chief Justice of a state supreme court saying this. Yes, that’s what I’m talking about.

Let’s see real change in Arizona, vote Michael Kielsky for Maricopa County Attorney. http://kielsky.com

Ron Paul is against prohibition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0GZznxMC14

Totalitarianism is nearly equal to statism. However, anarchy is more of a product of the far left leaning liberals because they still believe in government control of corporations because they despise corporatism because there main point of contention is social freedom without regard for economic freedom. Libertarianism is not the equivalent of anarchism because libertarians believes in small scale regulation, which is why libertarians are very supportive of federalism, i.e. states rights. Our founding fathers looked at it as anarchist and totalitarianism and tried to put us in the middle, which is where libertarians stand. Your notion of totalitarianism and anarchy simplifies it too much, which is why the model I provided is more correct.

A scummy money grab!

Well hell brother i’m a liberal and this too is aweseom! See some of us do have something in common! Whoo hoo!

I support this move by the governor. And according to this, I’m libertarian.
I actually support the full legalization of marijuana. It should be regulated and taxed (like cigarettes or booze). Its an economic issue to me. We spend a ton of money fighting the sale and use of drugs. Meanwhile the criminals make a fortune and pay no taxes. I would rather save the money fighting marijuana, end this criminal enterprise and tax it.

I think hard drugs should remain legal though.

We get closer and closer toward a decadent society, and decadence is a sign of a nation in decline. There was a time when there were no casinoes, except in Vegas, because, as a society, we decided that it was a destructive thing and counter to what the government should be involved in. Gambling was suppose to help our schools. Remember? I don’t know about you, but I have no idea where all that gambling money went because our kids have been dumbed down.

How has gambling helped our kids? It hasn’t. It’s only hurt our families and destroyed lives. A man who lived a few blocks from my mother’s house – a family man, with a wife and kids — hung himself because of his gambling debts. Drugs will only end up hurtiing our kids and pot will dumb them down even more. Is this what the Democrats really wanted?

Why the $100 fine? I am a conservative libertarian, and I believe that pot should be legalized TODAY! It is a scheme to perpetuate prisons, police pensions, and political power in the hands of a few. It is NO DIFFERENT than alcohol or the prescription meds that are prescribed and taken by senators, congressmen, district attorneys, policemen and their wives/husbands. Time to get real people.

Your logic is typical undergraduate sociology student level thinking and massively flawed, dependent on basic semantic wordplay. Lets ditch the ambiguity – no kidding there’s a link between law and crime, you have a law and it’s a crime to break that law, take away the law and of course no crime has been committed, crime levels drop. So by your logic it makes the most sense to ditch laws altogether, yet laws still exist, and all laws are prohibitions of one sort or another.

Question that for a moment. Why? Why not anarchy? The answer is simple – society. People are not the same, they all tread on each others toes, in order for society to work there is a groundwork or rules laid out to minimize the infractions of one persons freedoms on another and allow society and free trade to continue as best as possible. Over time many laws are passed based on experience of society, some of them are asinine, others are necessary. There is no one brush to paint them all with as you should seek to.

In this case I disagree with the change in law, other peoples smoke infringes on my right to breathe clean air and enjoy my own back yard or even have my windows open. I am trapped by others antisocial selfish behavior, while mine has no effect on them (they could always go into their own house, be in their own car, and not smoking doesn’t exactly negatively effect their lives or health). So should the law really go on the side of the tobacco lobby (pretending to be on the side of the people), after all they are the ones who stand to gain the most out of this, it’s rare for people to smoke dope raw.

Your logic is typical undergraduate sociology student level thinking and massively flawed, dependent on basic semantic wordplay. Lets ditch the ambiguity – no kidding there’s a link between law and crime, you have a law and it’s a crime to break that law, take away the law and of course no crime has been committed, crime levels drop. So by your logic it makes the most sense to ditch laws altogether, yet laws still exist, and all laws are prohibitions of one sort or another.

Question that for a moment. Why? Why not anarchy? The answer is simple – society. People are not the same, they all tread on each others toes, in order for society to work there is a groundwork or rules laid out to minimize the infractions of one persons freedoms on another and allow society and free trade to continue as best as possible. Over time many laws are passed based on experience of society, some of them are asinine, others are necessary. There is no one brush to paint them all with as you should seek to.

In this case I disagree with the change in law, other peoples smoke infringes on my right to breathe clean air and enjoy my own back yard or even have my windows open. I am trapped by others antisocial selfish behavior, while mine has no effect on them (they could always go into their own house, be in their own car, and not smoking doesn’t exactly negatively effect their lives or health). So should the law really go on the side of the tobacco lobby (pretending to be on the side of the people), after all they are the ones who stand to gain the most out of this, it’s rare for people to smoke dope raw.

Your logic is typical undergraduate sociology student level thinking and massively flawed, dependent on basic semantic wordplay. Lets ditch the ambiguity – no kidding there’s a link between law and crime, you have a law and it’s a crime to break that law, take away the law and of course no crime has been committed, crime levels drop. So by your logic it makes the most sense to ditch laws altogether, yet laws still exist, and all laws are prohibitions of one sort or another.

Question that for a moment. Why? Why not anarchy? The answer is simple – society. People are not the same, they all tread on each others toes, in order for society to work there is a groundwork or rules laid out to minimize the infractions of one persons freedoms on another and allow society and free trade to continue as best as possible. Over time many laws are passed based on experience of society, some of them are asinine, others are necessary. There is no one brush to paint them all with as you should seek to.

In this case I disagree with the change in law, other peoples smoke infringes on my right to breathe clean air and enjoy my own back yard or even have my windows open. I am trapped by others antisocial selfish behavior, while mine has no effect on them (they could always go into their own house, be in their own car, and not smoking doesn’t exactly negatively effect their lives or health). So should the law really go on the side of the tobacco lobby (pretending to be on the side of the people), after all they are the ones who stand to gain the most out of this, it’s rare for people to smoke dope raw.

You are an authoritarian, Statist fool. Laws are supposed to protect individuals’ rights. You have no right to use the power of government to force me to conform to your idea of morality. If you think using drugs is immoral, THEN DON’T USE THEM! But let others make their own decisions.

WTF… “it’s rare for people to smoke dope raw”
you sound like a lunatic, stick to subjects you understand better.

Bravo! So where does that leave the sovereignty over their own bodies of those that do not smoke marijuana?

Are you suggesting that those who wish to breathe clean air, not have secondary smoke must “do something about it”? What pray do you suggest? Maybe a baseball bat? Perhaps a shotgun? I hear both have merits I’d love to hear what you think about this.

The problem you see is that while you taking a drink only affects you (and the wine grower, economy etc), up to the point you become belligerent, obnoxious towards others, perhaps get into a car and run over a few people at a bus stop etc – marijuana use is most commonly done via smoking, smoking really doesn’t affect just you, it affects the entire environment around you for quite a large distance, you may be surprised to hear that if you have an atrophied sense of taste and smell thanks to being a smoker.

In fact I think you’ll find everything you do within society, provided you’re not a hermit in fact affects other people. Someone that eats too much chocolate affects other peoples health premiums, and other peoples jobs, no man is an island.

Any true conservative knows this, it’s not about having sovereignty over your own body it’s about taking responsibility for your actions. These are two quite different things, one is about narcissism and clearly belongs to the left wing as such, the other involves thinking about others and such traditional values as politeness.

SO how many people will die because some idiot can smoke pot and drive now.

I have to avoid drunks, bad drivers, illegals without licences and now potheads.

How many people will have their lives ruined by drug use? Maybe they won’t be dead but they will neglect their families, children, jobs all to get high.

Keeping drugs illegal keeps SOME people from damaging their lives and the lives of others. PROHIBITION saves lives.

I do understand the subject, you clearly don’t. People smoke marijuana mixed in with tobacco most of the time, hence not “raw” or on it’s own, especially not with the more modern varieties that have become exceptionally strong.

Obviously I’ve upset you deeply by rocking your boat. Sorry to be so inconvenient.

And what about what you put into other peoples bodies?

Do you even understand how civilization and society work?

No we don’t…LOL maybe in Europe, I have heard those people do that, but not in the states. It cost to much to ruin it with tobacco.

Prohibition is unconstitutional!!!!!!!!!

There was a similar law in Ann Arbor, MI back in the early 70′s but rightwing politicians got elected and reversed the law. Too bad, it set back pot liberalization 3 decades.

Dirty little secret regarding fines in California. A $100 fine (ticket) has a 300+ percent tax/fee attached to them. So the ACTUAL fine will be around $400! Why, we in California put up with this is beyond me.

Why even have a $100 fine? This makes NO sense. I am a Conservative Libertarian, and I think it is time to decriminalize marijuana. It is no different than the prescription meds that are gobbles up by legislators, police, and judges and their husbands and/or wives.

Arnold is for it before he is against it. How Kerry-esque.

Yay! Neocon here! No more stems and seeds! Legalize it. Tax it. Control it. Take it out of the hands 0f the cartels. Make it available to the wrong social classes and run afoul of the same laws you would if you provided alcohol to minors. Do the same for all narcotics. Go to the doctor to be declared an addict and turn in y0ur gum or tobacco to be doctored daily. If caught dealing it, life in prison and forfeiture of all assets.
Otherwise, die as the addict of your choice , with no new addicts following behind. In thirty years we’re done with the whole mess and everybody gets exactly what they want without being judged. No sarcasm here. I mean what I say.

How can they fine you $100 without a trial? Why not 5 years in prison for robbery without a trial? What happened to due process?

I agree, I have never heard of or saw anyone smoke mixed in with tobacco.

Tom,
I’d argue that not knowing the difference between a true conservative and a neocon makes you an idiot. You’d better do 30 seconds of research before you open your mouth and look stupid.

Finally, a conservative with a brain! Good job of knowing there is a difference – A HUGE one – between the two. We seem to be in the minority here.

To be more specific, you are a conservative who doesn’t know the difference between neocon and conservative. Please educate yourself just a little on the subject. Google neocon and read the wiki. You might even find yourself agreeing with me.

Vaporizers don’t produce second-hand smoke and they are becoming more and more common. You can even use a portable vaporizer on a bus or in a movie theater and no-one will even notice! One day we will laugh at cannabis prohibition just like we laugh at people who once thought the world flat. A historical anomaly.

you r stoopit

Before you call someone a name, maybe you should makes sure you know what you are talking about first. Please show me where I used the term “conservative”. A neocon is a different critter than a traditional conservative. Neocons are perfectly okay with legislating morality and instituting public policy based on biblical influence. True conservatives want the government out of their personal lives and their pocketbooks. Neocons are the same folks who want to force schools to teach intelligent design because the Bible told them so. Big difference.

Unfortunately, neocon has become one of those terms, like facism, racism, etc. that gets abused so much that people don’t know how to use them or even what they REALLY mean.

I guess it’s easier to call names than to take a minute to read and UNDERSTAND what someone is saying. There is a term for people like that too, and it’s asshole!

Steve Daniel Sr.
True Conservative (not a neocon)

Dude if you tink a conservative and a neocon are the same then you are the one who needs to get a clue. In fact, you need to get a whole lot of clues!

Neocons love to legislate morality. Traditional conservatives and libertarians do not. Please educate yourself and stop abusing the term “neocon”.

i kno u r but wat m i?

somehow, i seriously doubt that. but go ahead and convince yourself.

Hey Justsayno,
Since you have two wonderful kids, and you have smoked it all your life, which I take it to mean, roughly when you were 12-15 yrs old you started? Then you should have NO problem with me buying pot and starting YOUR kids as early as YOU did. As an experiment, I will pay for it for the rest of their lives, ONLY they use it, NOT you and lets see how they turn out at 42. Are you willing? We can set up you tube to video grade progress whether it goes up down, and behavior ie; mood etc.., Of course since you did it all your life, you should have NO problem with them doing up front, in the open for ALL to see that you stand by it. Let’s play a game shall we?

Far worse? There is my argument. You say it’s the lesser of two evils, but nonetheless, they are harmful to certain degrees. One thing leads to another. Sexual deviants start with harmless antics, and eventually they lead to auto erotic asphyxiation, pot leads to stronger drugs and has been shown to do so (http://www.druglibrary.org/special/goode/goode2.htm) and here (http://www.physorg.com/news71419492.html) You may disagree, but the studies are the studies. These are not some blogger’s comments either.

Far worse? There is my argument. You say it’s the lesser of two evils, but nonetheless, they are harmful to certain degrees. One thing leads to another. Sexual deviants start with harmless antics, and eventually they lead to auto erotic asphyxiation, pot leads to stronger drugs and has been shown to do so (http://www.druglibrary.org/special/goode/goode2.htm) and here (http://www.physorg.com/news71419492.html) You may disagree, but the studies are the studies. These are not some blogger’s comments either.

no, but thanks for keeping things civil. Look, there are no easy answers, but too much of anything is no good, i think we all can agree on that. whether it’s hamburgers, alcohol, chips and pot included. the point i think we (my side) is trying to say is that too many people who have wasted themselves outweighs those who haven’t with pot use. so when do you say that someone has to step up and look out for as many as possible? Utilitarianism.
thanks shizmit11, you’re a good patriot! I say that, because it takes alot even agree with someone on some point when so many will even refuse to acknowledge some sort “yeah the other guy was right on something” and I may rethink a little bit more. Don’t think I haven’t walked away from this without a bit of understanding. But too few have made a compelling argument for me to get there. Sure you get the ” I did it and I turned out alright” but that’s just it. It’s a statement unsupported. At least I provided some links to valid studies….
take care….

Pot can lead to stronger drugs and has been shown to do so (http://www.druglibrary.org/special/goode/goode2.htm) and here (http://www.physorg.com/news71419492.html) Most on this posting may disagree, but the studies are the studies. These are not some blogger’s comments either.

Robin…you are pretty dumb. Or a Lunatic.
Children should not do drugs…..its that simple. No different then the alcohol that they shouldn’t drink also. Or the cigarettes they shouldn’t smoke.
You really seem to have deep seeded problems with people that smoke pot. Realize its YOUR problem, not the worlds problem.
The sooner you realize your dumbass cousin is responsible for his actions ( as we all are) the sooner you might be able to help him turn his lazy around.
Stop blaming the plant and put the blame squarely where it belongs.

There is millions of productive people in this world that smoke. Get over it.

As a parent I wouldn’t want my children to do any drugs or drink alcohal. I would steer them away. And I don’t smoke pot anymore actually, not since I met my wife 4 years ago. But if my adult child made a personal descision to smoke pot I wouldn’t care. You are missing the point of this whole thing. Pot doesn’t control someones life and how tnhey make out. As many people i know that have smoke pot most of their lives and are succesful there may ne as many down and out people who smoke it. but it is not because of their addiction to pot.

Oh my god…..everything leads to something. robin, stop driving your car, that leads to drinking and driving. It also pollutes the air, people get killed.
Also, protest all the bars in NJ because they lead to people getting drunk and having sex.( I don’t need a study for that one

What about AC, that leads to gambling problems..outlaw them right?
High school football, outlaw this also, people get hurt and cheerleaders love them, that leads to all kinds of problems.
Outlaw everything that leads to something…LOL…get a grip…LOL

funny, how you don’t want them too.
you made the decision when you were young without your parents
consent, but did you think about that? that they didn’t want you to
just as you don’t want your kids, YET you advocate for it?
strange reasoning on your part, and you shaped my case.

yeah, but you did it and that was alright and you advocate it?
how old were you when you started? and be honest, don’t tell me 17.

you begin to lose the argument when you start name calling.
great for all to see how you defend your position.

I’m a conservative and I think ALL drugs should be legalized. I don’t care if you smoke pot and become the laziest effer on the block, that’s not my problem. I don’t care if you’re a junkie and hooked on heroin or coke or crack, again, not my problem. If you commit a crime while high, or because you want to get high, then you should be prosecuted for your crime, not the reason behind the crime. I just don’t want a single penny of tax payer money going to help get you clean or to help straighten up your life when you figure out drugs are not the answer. Go OD for all I care. You can either run with the fittest or get eaten because you’re weak.

Collage…is that OK with you?

President Clinton, Bush, Obama have all smoked pot Robin…..Maybe it leads to that?
Prove it doesn’t. Or ask Micheal Phelps if it leads to Olympic Medals?

Q: What is a neoconservative and who are they?

Rich Lowry: Historically, 30 years ago it meant a former liberal who became a conservative. The cliche was because “they were mugged by reality,” but it was because they saw the empirical failures of liberal welfare, state and foreign policies, and they were therefore less ideological than other conservatives and brought much more of a social science background to their argumentation.

They were associated with Irving Kristol’s journal, the Public Interest, that had a lot of social-science pieces poking empirical holes in liberal theory. These people were former liberals, former Democrats, and in some cases former communists, but gradually over 30 years they really merged into the conservative mainstream, and the difference was very difficult to tell.

In fact, one of the foremost neoconservatives, Norman Podhoretz, wrote an obituary for this distinction several years ago because it just seemed to no longer matter. We’ve seen the rise of it again, first of all, with John McCain’s candidacy in 2000, where the segment of conservatives that supported Sen. McCain tended to have more neo-kind of tendencies and tended to sort of self-consciously describe themselves as “neoconservatives,” foremost among them Bill Kristol and David Brooks.

Neoconservatives are less skeptical of government than other conservatives. They are less worried about reducing the size of government, less enthusiastic about tax cuts, more concerned about forging national crusades that can tap either the American public’s patriotism or its desire for reform. You saw this in McCain with his campaign finance proposal and a little bit in his foreign policy.

And with the war on terror, you saw neoconservatives emerging as a distinct tendency within conservatism, mostly on foreign policy; its hallmarks being extreme interventionism, extremely idealistic foreign policy, and emphasis on democracy building and spreading human rights and freedom and an overestimation, in my view, of how easy it is to spread democracy and liberty to spots in the world where it doesn’t exist currently.

Paul Weyrich: They are mostly ex-liberals, by and large out of the intellectual community. These are people who came to the realization that modern liberalism was not the kind of liberalism that they had subscribed to. They are a fairly small group of people, both in and out of government. Those who are out of government are in either the media or academia. They are influential because they promote each other. They are very skilled at that.

Paul Gigot: I think of neoconservatism as having a very specific meaning related to history. That is, the neoconservatives were people who in the 1970s were former liberals, in some cases socialists, who moved right in reaction to the left’s shift on cultural mores, personal responsibility and foreign policy. So I think the term “neoconservative” has that narrow meaning of that historical period. I think of them as the Podhoretzes and the Kristols and others. I don’t think “neoconservative” means much anymore. I don’t know what it means now or who they’re referring to.

George Will: Oh gosh, that’s not simple. Neoconservatives are persons who in domestic policy often were former Democrats who felt that conservatives had erred in not accepting the post-New Deal role of the central government. They were in their early incarnation focusing on domestic policy and were distinguishing themselves from Goldwater conservatives.

You’re getting your neocon definition from wiki?

I think we are done here.

President Clinton, Bush, Obama have all smoked pot Robin…..Maybe it leads to that?
Prove it doesn’t. Or ask Micheal Phelps if it leads to Olympic Medals?

thats AWESOME!

I wish every state would take the same stance on this issue.

now people will smoke and drive without fear of jail lets kill our children with pot smokers on the road

BURNABLUNT.COM has cannabis clothing goin on!!!!!!!!!BURNABLUNT.COM,BURNABLUNT.COM

It’s actually not a bad summary. Why don’t you read it and tell us how it is wrong? And where do you get your definition, genious? My guess is Daily Kos.

This has so much more logic in it then Prop 19…Prop 19 is a sham… it was created for all the wrong reasons.. Has nothing to do with helping people or making it legal.. Prop 19 was created to generate MONEY…come Jan 1st. you can drive with up to an ounce and its not even a misdemeanor if you get pulled over…. California… You enjoy the benefit of growers who have money and put it back into communities and businesses… If Prop 19 passes, you can count on it not benefiting anyone.. Everyone will have less $$$ –The State wont be able to collect its $50 per ounce tax and growers sure as hell are not going to sell ounces for $38 bucks… Wake up… Arnold is right in this situation, and Oaksterdam politics don’t reflect what’s happening around the rest of the state! California will face destitute, not a gold rush if they pass prop 19 !

you are indeed imbalanced

please help us staighten out the issue of prop 19 by leaving a comment on this youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTo61Tm2a5E

ACTUALLY… No. That does NOT invalidate Prop 19. Certainly not a valid reason for voting no.
Prop 19 is about MUCH more than just saving a little money on law enforcement. That is a Tiny part of it, compared to the rest.
The REAL reason to Vote YES is because Legalizing it helps to ACTUALLY REGULATE IT, put age limits on it, make sure it’s not tainted, AND TO TAX IT!
The amount of money that could be made from taxing LEGAL Cannabis sales, makes the amount of money saved from not enforcing it look like PENNIES in comparison. But of course BOTH are good.

So VOTE YES on 19!!! Do it to help regulate Cannabis, do it to Tax it, do it to reduce underage access to it! (Drug dealers dont check IDs, 7/11s DO.) Do it for all the right reasons, because as long as it is still technically Illegal, ALL WE ARE DOING IS MAKING THE PROBLEM WORSE. Legalization will work far better than Prohibition, at fixing the problems!

i live in croatia, and i wood like to smoke weed and not go to prison

You assume the black market is only limited to “illegal” substances. In many cases the prices are cheaper, especially for things the consumer cannot manufacture for themselves (or it is cost-prohibitive to do so).

The reason drugs are more expensive is because it is far too great a risk for the consumer to produce the drugs themselves. If the consumer were permitted to grow their own pot, for example, the price would have to come down greatly to make it counterproductive for the consumer to produce their own and for the marketeer to continue to do business.

I’m sorry but you’re comment makes no sense. The second half of your response agrees with my first comment. Black markets are created where there is a need. No, not all black market products are illegal, but we’re talking about one that is (Hopefully not for much longer). My comment was regarding cannabis in black markets not black markets themselves. As you agreed with me, drugs are expensive because of the risk involved which means the producers have control of the market and set the price accordingly. But, in your first comment you said “consumers benefit” from the black market and then you just wrote “the price would have to come down greatly if consumers were permitted to grow their own pot.” These are conflicting statements. Black markets may be great for the producers and yes it gives consumers a chance to get something they may not otherwise be able to get but its still going to be at a much greater cost than if it were produced legally. Hence, it gives power to those profiting from the market.

Your gateway theory is dull at best. If you really stand by that theory then what about tobacco or alcohol? I guarantee most start off by trying one if not both of those substance so why aren’t you arguing that they are the “gateway” to harsher drugs. Do you forget about those substances because they are legal? If you consume alcohol or tobacco at all then you are a hypocrite. You can’t demonize one substance that has never killed anyone but push aside two of the biggest killers in the world annually. It makes no sense. So, as hard as you defend cannabis prohibition you should also be trying to prohibit all drugs because they CAN be bad for the body right? People can become addicted to anything and let their lives be taken over by it. You can get addicted to cheeseburgers and become obese. Does that mean we need to shutdown all Mcdonald’s because they may lead to harder things such as Taco Bell? Why do so many people put so much blame on substances when the real weakness lies with the people who aren’t able to control themselves and be productive members of society. Stop blaming substances for ruined or misguided lives.

On to my next point, do you really think prohibition works? Did it work with alcohol? NO! Ever heard of a man called Al Capone? Where do you think he got his power from? Prohibition. So, why would it work with cannabis or any other substance. People who want to do those substances are going to regardless of whether its legal or not. So why would you want to create a black market that only gives power to drug dealers and cartels and creates more and more channels for criminals in our society. Not to mention how many people each year are being treated as hardened criminals when they should be either left alone because they aren’t harming anyone else or treated as sick people who need rehab. Wake up and turn off your reefer madness movie. The illegality of cannabis has nothing to do with its effects on our bodies. The gov’t obviously doesn’t care about our health (i.e. alcohol and tobacco). They made it illegal because of business and political reasons. Actually, it wasn’t even about the psychoactive properties at all, it was about hemp, a substance that has been used for thousands of years to make paper (the first paper made was made from hemp and mulberry in China thousands of years ago), clothing, sails, food, buildings, etc. This plant is a miracle plant with thousands of uses and hopefully eventually the sheep of the world can have their eyes opened to see how beneficial it would be to use hemp instead of trees. In my opinion, it would transform our planet and stop the destruction of forests and other natural resources.

Are you really that ignorant? What about alcohol? tobacco? pharmaceuticals? hell, even fatty foods? Are you gonna tell me that we shouldn’t be allowed to use something because of the possibility that someone somewhere might abuse it? You can’t nerf the world. I always find it appalling how hypocritical people sound when they try and make an argument like this but forget about all the other substances that people CAN get hooked on. So, unless you endorse the prohibition of all drugs, stop spewing out hypocritical nonsense. Its either all or nothing. You can’t draw lines, substances are used differently by different people. For you to lump everyone into a category is ridiculous. Kids dumbed down? Well then how about we focus on education. And not education as in “just say no”, that approach has the opposite effect on people. The US has become a binge society. Why do you assume that if drugs are legal there will be some crazy rise in use? Actually, eventually there will most likely be a decrease in use. Prohibition is not the answer. It didn’t work before (alcohol), why would it work with anything else? You are the type of person that is prolonging and worsening the abuse of drugs, not the other way around.

Moral type folks? wow, could you be any more self-righteous? Your arrogance is above you. So you don’t drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, use caffeine, or take any pharmaceuticals? I highly doubt it. Get off your high horse. And where does morality come into play? Is it the abuse of a substance that is immoral? If so, then does that make obese people immoral? And does that mean that you are moral because you don’t abuse a substance (which in reality you probably do)? Try and step back and look at the way you are representing yourself. No one wants to listen to self-righteous arrogant people.

Legalize it. Tax it. Regulate it. Control it.

VOTE YES ON PROP 19

i’m not as think as you stoned i am. just legalize it.

prop 19 calls for penalties for driving while high, smoking in the presence of minors, and supplying it to those under 21. sounds fair to me, use it intelligently.

everyone i know who smokes is on disability. not. although what with how corporate amerika administers drug tests in order to procur employment nowadays, i am surprised that more of my pot-smoking friends actually do work for a living. you have to be marijuana-free in order to fold pants in the men’s department of wal-mart. funny thing is, you have to be high in order to alleviate the mind-numbing boredom and constant customer and management insults hurled all the day long.

what about tax advantages of legalization? 1449 does not address this issue. i’m hearing $50 per ounce tax.

i agree. then i could cancel my near-future road trip to cali.

You do know that Prop 19 would make use by minors (or adults in the immediate vicinity of minors) illegal, right?

The best overall argument for the cause in this whole thread. You, good sir, have my respect.

I’m sorry but I can’t take this seriously when the irony of complaining about decadence over the INTERNET is so blatant :

You’d be surprised just how many stoned people you interact with on a daily basis. Not every pot head is an obvious one.

Dude: SPEEDING. TICKETS. Shit even better, PARKING. TICKETS. YOU aren’t even there to defend yourself and you get fined.

Stop dumbing up the internet. There is more than enough of that.

You make the same argument as Truth.com – “Big Tobacco’s (Big Drug Dealers) only in it for the profits.” You use a plethora of negative adjectives when addressing a topic you for which you wish to create disdain. Basically, the subjectiveness of your statement, your “argument,” is irrefutable.

Incidentally, tobacco has been legal since the dawn of this country. It is a legal business, and still there are people just like you talking about the disease, corruption, and death that it causes. Their claim is the same though: it’s the government’s fault. They should regulate it better.

This leads me to believe that if/when we legalized, additives start going into it to make it taste better, give it a smoother draw, etc., you’ll be the first to get on your soapbox and talk about how “Big Marijuana” has killed your family.

The fact is: making it illegal raises a threshold on it, and thus creates a deterrent. People have been committing murder since the beginning of time. It is entwined with human existence. Factories have been polluting since the Industrial Revolution. It is entwined with industrial existence. It is making these things punishable with a foreseeable, concrete consequence through the rule of law that creates a deterrent. The plain and simple is: Marijuana is not necessary, it is potentially harmful, and fining people who get caught smoking is smart, especially for a state with massive amounts of debt.

Being drunk is not necessary, it is potentially harmful, and fining people who get caught doing it is smart. More severe consequences for more severe offenses (DUI instead of PI) is smart.

Also, there is still one argument that I have yet to see taken into account; I only know a handful of exclusive marijuana smokers, and a “vast ocean” of drinkers/smokers. All would say that marijuana and alcohol have a synergistic effect on their level of intoxication (else why would you be inclined to drink and smoke) – how do you enforce this?

Basically we need people to stop being dumb. If you know that it’s got a high potential of harming you, don’t do it. If you do and you pay the consequences, stfu, you knew going into it. If you don’t know what the hell you’re doing, news flash: drugs are dangerous, you’ll probably hurt yourself.

Anyway like I said I think this solution is pretty crafty. Actually similar to Germany’s law… possibly Austria’s too, but I’m less sure on that. Either way, leave it to the Governator.

You make the same argument as Truth.com – “Big Tobacco’s (Big Drug Dealers) only in it for the profits.” You use a plethora of negative adjectives when addressing a topic you for which you wish to create disdain. Basically, the subjectiveness of your statement, your “argument,” is irrefutable.

Incidentally, tobacco has been legal since the dawn of this country. It is a legal business, and still there are people just like you talking about the disease, corruption, and death that it causes. Their claim is the same though: it’s the government’s fault. They should regulate it better.

This leads me to believe that if/when we legalized, additives start going into it to make it taste better, give it a smoother draw, etc., you’ll be the first to get on your soapbox and talk about how “Big Marijuana” has killed your family.

The fact is: making it illegal raises a threshold on it, and thus creates a deterrent. People have been committing murder since the beginning of time. It is entwined with human existence. Factories have been polluting since the Industrial Revolution. It is entwined with industrial existence. It is making these things punishable with a foreseeable, concrete consequence through the rule of law that creates a deterrent. The plain and simple is: Marijuana is not necessary, it is potentially harmful, and fining people who get caught smoking is smart, especially for a state with massive amounts of debt.

Being drunk is not necessary, it is potentially harmful, and fining people who get caught doing it is smart. More severe consequences for more severe offenses (DUI instead of PI) is smart.

Also, there is still one argument that I have yet to see taken into account; I only know a handful of exclusive marijuana smokers, and a “vast ocean” of drinkers/smokers. All would say that marijuana and alcohol have a synergistic effect on their level of intoxication (else why would you be inclined to drink and smoke) – how do you enforce this?

Basically we need people to stop being dumb. If you know that it’s got a high potential of harming you, don’t do it. If you do and you pay the consequences, stfu, you knew going into it. If you don’t know what the hell you’re doing, news flash: drugs are dangerous, you’ll probably hurt yourself.

Anyway like I said I think this solution is pretty crafty. Actually similar to Germany’s law… possibly Austria’s too, but I’m less sure on that. Either way, leave it to the Governator.

It’s rare for people to smoke dope raw? I have been smoking (with LOTS of other people) for 30 years and I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anyone mix weed and tobacco. You make the leap from legalization of marijuana to repealing all laws and falling into a state of anarchy then spout out some babble about the enormous cloud of marijuana smoke that will envelope your world the day it becomes legal. Sir, let us indeed ditch the ambiguity-your arguments are…well, let’s say CUCKOO! To review: legalization will lead to anarchy AND a giant cloud of marijuana smoke will envelope the world, blotting out the sun and destroying mankind forever. Oh yeah, and the tobacco industry will see major increases in sales from marijuana users purchasing tobacco as a “mixer”. Oooookay.

I would suggest Ron Paul is different than roughly 90% of politicians including members from his own party. Ron Paul is one of the few politicians who is constantly fighting for the American people, our Democracy including the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. He went against the majority to vote against the war, the patriot act, the bail out, and for years has railed against the Federal Reserve as unconstitutional. In fact he vigorously grilled Bernanke and others during the trillion dollar sweepstakes for the bankers, insisting the American people deserved to know where our money was going. He understands the difference between true free market capitalism vs capitalism controlled by the global elite, or collectavism ie mega corps and mega banks. No politician is without sin and even fewer are not bought and paid for by special interests, but he is one of those few. Listen I was a loyal Democrat, voted Dem across the board until finally realizing the left vs right paradigm is a complete hoax. Special interest have controlled both parties and their policies for decades. I can now finally see that. So if you still feel Ron Paul is representing the globalist and their twisted agenda and not fighting for We The People I would suggest you simply look at his voting record and actually listen to his interviews and then make up your own mind. One article in the paper can not and should not define a true Patriot which Ron Paul is.

Asher, traffic offenses are not crimes. “Infractions” are breaches of contract when one submits to licensing. Simple, and easy to understand. Neither are you required to pay your traffic tickets. If you don’t, they simply will not renew the contract (your driver’s license). You don’t go to jail (usually for not paying traffic infractions.

In a criminal matter, things are different. The 7th Amendment (BoR) requires a jury trial in all matters of Common Law. True, the govt killed that by just destroying CL entirely; although, the premis of conviction requires the element of “jury” since the Magna Carta.

I fear I am not dumbing up the Inet, just sharing things WAY ABOVE the heads of the common citizen/resident/consumer….